In this episode of AyahuascaPodcast.com host Sam Believ interviews Doron Yitzchak Gibor on topics of Shadow work and working with Ayahuasca as a tool for learning.
Transcript
Sam Believ: You’re listening to aya podcast.com.
Hi guys, and welcome to aya podcast.com. As always with you here, Sam, the founder of the podcast and the Ayahuasca retreat, toga. Today we’re joined by a very special guest, Doran Geor. I am afraid to pronounce the second name. Is it?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: It? Yeah,
Sam Believ: it Doran. I do, yeah. I’ve known for a while now. Very, it’s very well pronounced, but I haven’t been to master, master the name.
So Doran was a guest at our retreat. When was it? About six months ago. Eight?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: No, it was almost a year ago. Almost a year
Sam Believ: ago.
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: Yeah. In February.
Sam Believ: And February. February
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: of 2023.
Sam Believ: And Doran was a very special guest because he wasn’t he wasn’t just there to learn. He was also there to teach because he willingly offered to teach us some techniques that he works with as in his personal personal coaching and spiritual practice.
And I learned a lot from him and a lot of other things. And I wanna share about that today. And today we want to also look into the topics for today will be shadow work ayahuasca as a healing tool and as a learning tool. Facilitation, integration, religion. It’s gonna be a fun episode, I’m sure.
So Dorin, welcome to the podcast.
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: Thank you so much then. It’s so good to be here.
Sam Believ: Dorin, tell us a little bit about yourself. How did you come in the work with the medicine?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: To begin with. I was living in South Africa and in South Africa the there is a very large alternative or the alternative healing community because of the local tribes there.
Shamans from all around the world passed by South Africa because there’s it’s very easy in terms of legality. So for me, I had a friend that got involved. He had the experience ayahuasca a couple of times. And he mentioned it to me, and at the time, I had just broken through some serious blockages in my own life.
And and I wasn’t interested but it only took about six months for me to become interested. I did it from, I did it for personal reasons. I saw that there was a certain type of woman that I was attracting that there was this common denominator that basically I could tell that it was my own pattern essentially.
Just as a side note, what I do for a living is I help people break through patterns and unconscious blockages. So I was able to really notice that this was a pattern in my life. And just for anyone listening, if you want to know, if you have a pattern, then just look if something has happened two or three or four times, and you’ll notice that the only common denominator is you.
So that would be a pattern. A blockage is if you want something and have wanted something for a long time and you still don’t have it, then you probably have a blockage. That’s just a caveat. So what happened was I experienced ayahuasca for the first time in July of 2013. And I went in with a very specific intention to heal the relationship with one of my ma one of my family members.
I’m just gonna, I’m just gonna, I’m not gonna go into detail. They’re just just to, for the protection of our own family members and I basically, I the type of revelation or the type of profound simplicity that I was given. Was so mind blowing. I basically just cried the whole time.
I didn’t have any of the typical experiences of nausea or visuals. I was just in a very compassionate place and I just cried for four or five hours straight. And because it was a weekend retreat, so there was a second nights and that second nights I basically like, it was like sitting down with a teacher because I just got so much clarity about so many things.
It was really, it was very profound. And then what I got back to my life on the, on, on the Sunday, and I decided that I wanted to, I wanted to further my tertiary education. So what happened was I was in one university, was doing a business degree, and then and then I got into business.
So I put I took my portfolio into a, an open university called the University of South Africa UniSA, which is done by correspondence. So you don’t have to go to classes. You just, you study the material and you show up for exams. And I decided that I wanted to do psychology because it was more of what interested me than the business degree.
And so I was able to sign up within half an hour on the last day and the place was packed and I just, I could not believe that I was in and out in half an hour on the last day. It was just, something was like, it just, it was extremely irregular. Extremely irregular.
Sam Believ: The universe, something I.
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: It really did.
It really did. But what pushed me over the edge, so to speak, and really got my attention was that until then, for about two years, I had this car and and the petrol pump got broken. And so I went to a friend who had a garage and he he got his guys to put in a petrol pump. Now I had an Audi A four, and they put in the petrol pump for an Audi A three, but they didn’t tell me that.
They told me that they put in an Audi a four, but that’s the petrol pump of the Audi A four changed at a certain year, and I got the older one. And so if I wanted to, I needed to replace it with the same older one. It was all a lie. It was all a lie. I was living this line was my, was like true for me.
And basically the bottom line is that I this petrol pump, it got stuck. The gauge got stuck at a third. And so I never knew how much petrol I had in my tank. And every now and again, I would get stuck without any petrol. And for me it was like very metaphorical that the vehicle that I had in my life couldn’t take me very far.
It was unreliable. And within a week of drinking ayahuasca for the first time, I found the right pump. And there was a whole story where the guy basically said your whole story is not true. There’s no such thing as this old pump, new pump. Oh, this is the pump for this car. Do you want it or not? And I said, sure.
And so within a week, my vehicle was fixed. Now, for me, that was such a breakthrough because I was living this lie that this person had told me and it was true for me. I’d go into a place and say, do you have the old petrol pump for this car? And they’d be, look, they’d look at me. They wouldn’t know really what I’m talking about.
And it was only when someone actually said it to my face there’s no such thing. This is the petrol pump for this car. Do you want it? I said, yeah, put it in my car. And it worked. And then all of a sudden I was like, how? Obviously something changed within me because I had this experience. But then what has me drinking got to do with a a flawless flow, registering to a new university from a different university with a foreign metric, which is a grade 10 a foreign metric, which means there was a whole, it was a whole thing of if I matri, if I like finished school in one country and came to this country, then the certificates and it was a different language.
How could I go in and out register for a degree in a new university in under half an hour downtown in Johannesburg. And then a few days later have my car fixed, what’s going on here? What, what actually changed within me since having this experience. And then I realized that it was my vibration had increased into this, let’s call it a bandwidth, where I was experiencing all of this flow.
And that really just got me obsessed with the concept of vibration. It really like, and today what I do for people for a living is that I help people raise their vibration into new bandwidths utilizing shadow work, which we’ll touch on later. I then basically felt that I had to experience this more, like I had to.
So whenever there was this opportunity, I would go for it. And then there would be this like, flow of information that was like, answering all my questions, posing new questions, and then answering those. And basically just like drawing out this map of what I refer to as my model of reality. Just like answering questions.
And then things would unfold and then there would be more answers and more information. And it was just, it was a very enlightening experience. And then at some point I’m really like concise in the story, into into headlines at some time. This the shaman, the German guy that lived in LA and he came to South Africa and we started talking.
His medicine was like very different. He separates, he separated the first drink from the second drink, so he separated the MAOI from the DMT, which, when you think about it from a, from, just from a digestive point of view, it makes perfect sense. That the mi that the MAI gets absorbed first fully, and then the DMT, so no DMT gets quote unquote wasted.
You don’t have to do it like that. And Shamans for a millennia have been doing it. Not like that. It just, it made a lot of sense and it worked really well. But anyway, we got to talking and the way he said to me that the way that I do my coaching based on laws and gender and polarity, he says he, this is how he does his medicine also, and that we should try and work together.
And so we said, okay let’s give it a shot. Let’s create a retreat where we have the actual medicine, the medicine experience, but then it will also bring in coaching and integration as a theme. So not just like a conversation at the end or like a a circle where people just share their experience, but actual teaching of coaching principles and universal laws and the technicalities of transformation, like actually teaching it as a theme.
And so we did this, we would run three day retreats where there would be a coaching integration session on Thursday night before anything. And then Friday morning before the first ceremony, and then Friday afternoon before the the second one. So we’d work with, we’d work with a male with a masculine medicine and a feminine medicine.
And then it would be the, basically the coaching integration system would be wedged between and before the actual medicine experiences. And so all the information was would trickle and form a a really well understood themed concept for the retreat.
And it worked out to be, it worked out really great. It turned out to be a very good formula. And we worked like this for like I think just under three years. Running retreats once a month, sometimes twice a month in Johannesburg and in Cape Town. And then we started doing them overseas as well.
And I had the great privilege of of seeing like well over a thousand people go through this process. And along the way I just was receiving more and more information. Like literally for those of you that don’t know when you drink ayahuasca, it becomes, it be, it can be a very challenging experience because it pulls something from the unconscious mind, something intangible based on your intention and what it is that you want to get out of life.
And out of the encounter, it pulls something from your unconscious mind and then it brings it into a semi tangible place where it’s like in your stomach and then you actually like purge, you vomit out something tangible. So there is a dislodging, so to speak, or an actual purging, but after a while.
I stopped purging after about, I don’t know, late twenties, maybe 30 ceremonies or so, I stopped purging and it would just become a very deep meditation. And in this meditation I would just ponder on the concepts that I was teaching. And every now and again more often than not, there would be a new, in, a new bit of information that would be like planted in my thoughts, planted in my mind.
And it would, it’d be like, I won’t say overwhelming, but very profound. Very profound. And then I would integrate that and basically I would get quote unquote shown how to explain laws and how to explain the human experience and where perception may be flawed and like how to shatter an illusion.
This is what happened over, over the course of about nine or 10 months in 2015. And in retrospect, I can say that I downloaded, if you will, a new form of coaching that I call breakthrough matrix coaching and a new form or a methodology of shadow work, which is pretty groundbreaking because shadow work can be in its own right, pretty grueling.
But I have a process that has a middle, a beginning, a middle, and an end. It has a grueling part but it’s it’s very thorough and it works. So I hope that answers your question.
Sam Believ: Yeah. More than that. Before I go to the next subject, I wanna tell something. So at Laira, our motto is Connect, heal, grow.
What I want to explain is that when you first start working with the medicine, first you connect to the medicine, connect to yourself, connect to nature, connect to God then you heal physically, mentally, and then inevitably you grow. And when you grow as a person. You grow professionally, you grow spiritually.
And eventually when you go deeper, you go to where what I believe if that’s a correct way the things happen, correct sequence. Then you go where Doran went. Doran went because the inevitable inevitably is that part where you get to the point where there is this limitless spiritual exploration and you can gather knowledge.
So for those who are working with the medicine, a lot of times that’s why are you drinking? Why are you still drinking medicine? If you already healed or why are you. Like understanding what happens afterwards. And I believe this is the progression.
And inevitably if you if that’s what you want, you’ll get to the point where, which Dar, which Doran describes is where you start getting information and then medicine heals you and then it starts helping you to heal other people. And it happened to me as well a little bit, but not to such an extent.
And I’m still a novice, like I focus more on, on the organizational side of it. And I postponed my spiritual growth part because of the business. But I’ll get there inevitably. But I like I like how you describe it. Can you talk a little bit more about this aspect of downloads and how it looks how it looks and how it feels, and maybe for those that are interested to, to get there what can they do?
Or can this be set as an intention?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: For example. Great question. Okay, so first of all it’s something that is not necessarily unique to a psychedelic experience. Every, everyone has the power of imagination. And imagination is not thinking of things that don’t exist. Like when people say you’re just imagining things.
Imagination comes from the word image, and it’s what we do with our mind is that we go into this imagery and things begin to take form in, in a, in, in, in a, let’s call it perception. It doesn’t have to be necessarily a recognizable form. The learning that happens in a mental space is not linear, and it sometimes doesn’t even really have words or things that are, let’s call it recognizable, but like for instance, Einstein, when he was on the, on, on the edge of his genius, on the edge of his like discoveries, he didn’t have a book to refer to.
So he would think about these things and he loved what he was doing. Obviously he would think about these things and then at some point his imagination would fill in the blanks. So this is not something that is unique to medicine, but what medicine does, just in general specifically I ask him, is that it’s able to compress into a space of a few hours.
It’s able to compress a lot of time, sometimes years into a, an intense 4, 5, 6, 7 hour experience. So whatever it is that a person is doing. Like whatever their trajectory is, it can be compressed and let’s call it sped up. But essentially in order to receive a quote unquote download, and I use that term very specifically because a lot of people call a realization, a download.
And I’m not saying that it’s not, but what I experienced was literally a revelation of something that was not there before. So it wasn’t just a single realization or a single thought. It was an entire philosophy or a methodology of self-inquiry. And what it did for me and I can say this now in retrospect because I had enough time of teaching it and I understand it really well, is that it took everything that I was obsessed with.
All the different frameworks. ’cause I’m a framework, I’m a frameworks guy. I’m really into frameworks of information and it basically took every framework and every process that I knew and everything that I understood about about human potential and mental mastery and self-discipline and and outputs.
And it basically it shook everything. It shook off all the labels and showed me like how in its essence that there are a certain amount of working parts that all connect. So that’s what it did for me is that it showed it connected everything in my mind that I was already obsessed with into a working system.
So it took all the parts and said, this is how it all goes together. So can a person have that intention? Yes. But if there is like heavy stuff. That is weighing a person down, chances are that heavy stuff needs to be dealt with because you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta be really at peace in order to have these downloads.
And I’m not talking about in medicine, I’m talking about also just in normal meditation. You’ve gotta be really at peace. You’ve gotta, you’ve gotta have such a deep peace that it’s not just a peace of I’m okay with everything as it is. It’s like I’m okay with everything as it is, and I love it.
Or I’m so okay with it that it feels good in my body. Because peace isn’t a neutral feeling. It’s a positive feeling. It’s a good feeling. And so if you are obsessed with something and you think about it a lot, like you really have to think about it a lot. At some point, your own mind will begin to fill it in blanks.
That’s everywhere. And so what happened to me in the medicine was that I would be in this place of think about this. I didn’t plan on being in a shamanic partnership and I didn’t plan on running retreats and I didn’t plan on any of this. And I literally it felt to me like a divine hand picked me up and put me on that path.
And I suddenly found myself holding space for 20, 30 people at a time running these retreats. Teaching stuff that I’m very passionate about helping people like, have like realizations and like actual breakthroughs in their life. And I was so head over heels in love with my reality that it was just pure bliss and it was from that place of pure bliss and being able to really focus on the concepts that I’m so passionate about, that new information would literally be, let’s call it dripped or fed to me.
And I can see now how it had to be dripped, one little bit of it, one little bit at a time because I had to integrate it and see where it all fit together. If anybody’s interested in these things, I know we, we say we wanna talk about at the end, but if anyone’s interested in these these concepts like it, it’s on my website, breakthrough matrix.com.
It’s a free download, so if anyone’s interested, they can go check it out. But essentially, to answer your question, anyone can reach that place. But there are two stages or two macro stages when it comes to healing with any healing process, whether it’s meditation, whether it’s ice baths, whether it’s dancing, whether it’s singing, whether it’s whatever healing modality that a person is engaging in.
But for the sake of this podcast, we’ll speak specifically about medicine. There is a healing phase, which is about the past, and then there is an enlightening phase, which is about the future. And you cannot get to the enlightening phase without dealing with the healing phase first. You have to go through the healing phase first, and you have, and sometimes it can be deep, like really deep, and sometimes you’ve gotta be able to peel layer after layer.
But once you get to this core, there’s just this crazy ridiculous level of self-acceptance and acceptance of things as they are in like the sort of the divine everything is as it should be type of perspective. That from that place of peace slash bliss, there is an enlightenment that happens.
There is a there is an access to new information.
Sam Believ: Yeah, this is a great explanation Doran. And I totally understand you when you’re talking about synchronicities in your life happening and just putting you on a path where you never expected to be. Because absolutely same thing happened to me.
I’ve never planned to start Ayahuasca retreat. I didn’t even know what Ayahuasca was. And look at me now doing exactly the same thing and feeling, feeling the same things you felt as well. Even though it’s very difficult and very painful sometimes it is still, you feel like you’re in the right path and it feels very pleasant and you feel supported by something unknown and bigger than us.
You mentioned downloading the new methodology for shadow work. Before we talk about that, can you explain first to people what is shadow work?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: Sure. Sure. Just wanna say beforehand that a quick search on YouTube will bring up a lot of information. Jordan Peterson talks about it Alan wa talks about it.
Basically in a nutshell, one of the laws of this world is the law of polarity. That means positive and negative. You can also look at it as Ian and yang. Okay. So this law of polarity this duality of oneness. Yeah. Which is a paradox itself because the yin yang is one thing that has within it two things.
So within the singularity there is a duality. They’re not separate though.
Everything is dual, everything is polar. So you’ve got night and day. Within in your blood system, within your, like your body’s fluids, you’ve got alkaline and acids, which is your pH. And so what happens is that a person has within their own psyche or their own self-image, there is also there a yin and a yank.
There is a light self-image and there is a dark self-image. Now, the tricky part here is that another one of the designs for all living organisms, or at least for most living organisms, is a concept called photosynthesis. And photosynthesis is when things gravitate towards the light. I’m really not doing it justice.
There’s lot, there’s a lot more that happens within the plants, but the reason that plants grow upwards is because they’re going towards the light. And you can see this, that with certain plants, if you plant them in the kitchen, the plant will literally grow towards the window where the light is coming into the kitchen.
The same thing happens on an emotional or psychic level, that there is a gravitation towards my own light self, my self image, the person that I see myself as. Now if you can ask anyone, like, how do you see yourself? And they’ll, they’ll, on a good day they’ll come up with a picture of them with their best hairstyle, with their best clothes in, let’s say the coolest car at their best moment.
And this is this psychic photosynthesis that a person gravitates in their own mind towards their own best self, even if they may not feel like it. But if there is a gravitation towards a best self that a light self. That means that there is a gravitation away from their dark side their dark self or their worst self.
Okay. So there was a book that not many of the young people, anyone that was born after maybe the nineties or the two, two thousands, but there was a book called Dr. Jacqueline and Mr. Hyde, a very famous book. And it’s a book about this Dr. Jekyll, who was a brilliant physician and the s scientist or phys phy physicist or maybe a chemist.
But basically he came up with this potion that when he drank it, his, another side of him would come out like a monster type, cruel, violent type of persona would come out. And that was called Mr. Hyde. Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde were the same person. It’s just that once he drank this thing, this shadow self would come out and be visible for everyone.
Now the thing is that every person has this shadow self. And the only person that’s not aware of it is you. Everyone else is aware of your shadow self, right? So let’s say just the easiest example, let’s say a person has a a problem with their temper. So they get angry too easily and they know that’s a problem.
A person who has a problem with their anger, when they’re angry, they can’t control it. They can’t just quote unquote stay calm. They get into this emotion. They get into this emotional space where a certain behavior comes out and certain words come out. And more often than not, probably all the time, the person feels remorseful and ashamed about the things that they did and the things they said.
So how can that be? And even if it’s not a, even if it’s not a temper problem, everyone does things and says things that when they look back at it, they think to themselves, what was I, how could I do that? How could I say that? So how can that be, if you are a sane individual, how can there be behaviors and speeches that come out of you that you then regret and have to either make amends or apologize or another way of looking this, is that a person that ha So the way that I deal with shadow work specifically is I help people break through unconscious blockages.
So breakthrough income ceilings, breakthrough chronic illnesses. And breakthrough relationship patterns or blockages. So those are the three main areas. It can happen whenever there’s a loop or a pattern or blockage. But those are the three sort of like main categories. Some people call it health, wealth, romance.
So let’s say a person has got a money issue or relationship issue, let’s say, and they hit the wall. So they run out of money, let’s say, or they they break up they break up again. Or they find themselves in an abusive relationship and they in the relationship and then they promise themselves, I am never ever going to find myself in that position ever again.
They promise themselves, make a very firm decision and somehow it happens again. So a person, so the way that I’m talking about, my second example is that the way that I the shadow behavior comes out in it, it’s not, and it’s completely unconscious. So the only way that a person would notice that they have a shadow problem or a, it’s called that, that there’s a shadow problem, is when they find themselves in a loop or in a blockage that they cannot get past.
And that can take some time because when a person’s in their twenties and maybe early thirties, they go no, I don’t have a money block. I don’t have a money block. I just haven’t taken it seriously yet. So they’ve gotta wait at least a person like me that’s gonna, that can help them from a shadow point of view.
They there’s gotta be this process of the person’s gotta. Go through enough life where their best self, their most peaceful self, their most together self, their most creative self still can’t achieve those goals. And then they realize, okay, maybe there’s something in the unconscious mind that I need to, let’s look at the shadow stuff.
But to answer your question, shadow work is when a person is able to confront or own parts of themselves that they’re unaware of, but that’s popping up in their lives and showing up in like pockets of pain or blockages or things that they seem, they, it just feels either like bad luck or like their cursed.
So this would, this is what shadow work would be. Or if a person has let’s say with the original example when a person can like, okay, you know what my temper I can’t seem to, I can’t seem to deal with this and I’m not taking away anything from anger management. But anger management is very technique and strategy driven.
But you can only change things on a core level when you change an aspect of your being, when you become someone else. So shadow work is looking at the aspects of myself that I don’t like and that I’m not even aware of, because nobody wants to admit that I’m weak.
Nobody wants to admit that I’m not good enough. In fact, the entire world, I’d say 99 point something percent of the motivational world, counseling world, psychological world, therapy world, everyone says that the voice inside your mind that says, I’m not good enough, or I’m not worthy, or I’m a loser, it’s lying, and you have to shout louder.
So it doesn’t take a genius to understand that. If you’ve got a voice in your mind that says, I’m not good enough, and the advice that you’ve been given is to shout louder, I am good enough. What does that create when one voice is saying this, and then you’re saying this. What does this create? It creates inner conflict and breakthrough doesn’t happen on a basis of inner conflict.
Breakthrough happens on the basis of peace. So there’s gotta be a place where this gets reconciled. The truth of the matter is, if I give everyone like a peak sneak, is that I’m not good enough is true. I’m sorry. Sorry. It’s true. It’s just, it’s also true because you’re also phenomenal. You’re also the polar.
You’re also the polarity. So over there and over there, you may really, you really may not be good enough, and over there you may be a loser, and over there you may be a failure. It may be true, but there’s other places in your life where you are the polarity of that shadow. You are phenomenal and spectacular, and a champion and a legend and an inspiration.
And the two have to go together because that’s the law polarity.
Sam Believ: I think that explains it pretty well. You said that you recently, you’ve been focusing on, another way of healing. And you mentioned a word, another download that you had that it had to do about super conscious and I think it sounds very awesome.
Can you explain what is super conscious?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: Sure. Funnily enough the super conscious wasn’t really a download. So the reason that I went to Columbia specifically to Sam is because I was going through a very tough time. I had just come out of a very abusive relationship.
And I was in a very tough place. I had I’ve been dealing with PTSD for over a year and PTSD has hell. PTSD is when images very traumatic, images just stay stuck in the front of the mind. And they don’t get filed away. So it’s there’s a haunting that goes on.
And I thought to myself, okay, I need to deal with this. And I had employed every healing capacity that I could think of. And nothing was really working. And I decided that I wanted to I wanted to drink medicine again. And I wanted to do it more than once or twice.
So I found Sam, and I was like, okay, four ceremonies that should do it. I think. So I got to Columbia and basically I got told in the experience that like, we’re not gonna deal with that. We can do anything. We can talk about anything you want. We’re not gonna deal with that.
And I felt very I don’t wanna say betrayed, but I was like very disappointed. So I got a lot out of it. I got a hell of a lot out of it. But what happened much later about five months of February, March, April, may, like four months later, is that I was able to tap into a part of the mind called the super conscious mind.
And then once you tap into the super conscious mind, depending on what a person’s dealing with, the healing is absolutely instant. And and I’ll explain why. So essentially there are three parts to a person’s consciousness. There is the conscious mind, there is the unconscious mind. Let’s call, let’s just say unconscious and subconscious are the same thing for this example, because they’re not conscious.
But that duality of mind, conscious and unconscious, that duality of mind only happens when the soul’s in the body. And I’m sorry, to people that don’t believe in a soul, it’s just go listen to someone else. When the soul’s not in the body, the duality goes away. There’s no longer a duality of mind.
There is just a singularity of consciousness, and that singularity is called the superconscious. So if you had to think of a yin yang, you’ve got like the white part with the black dot, and you’ve got the black part with the white dot. So that would be conscious mind, unconscious mind, but the super conscious mind would just be a white circle where these two parts fit in.
And so the super conscious mind is really phenomenal because it works very much it works very much like artificial intelligence, and it’s not artificial intelligence. It’s infinite intelligence. And it’s basically the way that you can look at it is that the conscious mind wants a quality experience. It wants that pleasure and not pain. It wants to have abundance and not lack it wants to have a quality experience.
The unconscious mind is not interested in the quality experience. It wants a quantitative experience. That means it wants nothing new. It just wants familiarity. That’s why you’ve gotta do things over and over and over and over again in order for your unconscious mind to receive it because the newness goes away.
The super conscious mind doesn’t care about quality or quantity. It’s it’s completely, it’s both those things are irrelevant all at once is an experience. It’s just, it’s completely, neutral in terms of whether your experience is good or bad. It just wants to have a human experience. The thing is that this consciousness, the superconscious the singularity of consciousness it’s extremely powerful.
And so what I’ve been grace with for the past seven months or so, is this ability to tap into this super conscious mind For those that follow Joe Dispenza it’s basically connecting into the quantum field, but staying there and communicating with it to the point that it actually does things.
Yeah the healing stories that I can tell are like quite miraculous from relieving PTSD on myself and other people to to. Healing children. There’s been crazy stories of like children, like the younger that the younger the child the more instant the healing.
So the ones that stand out for me was like a 2-year-old with a 40 degree temperature, 40.5 degree temperature, which is like 105 and Fahrenheit. High blood pressure and trouble breathing after a 15 minute meditation, the child like would basically just became okay, temperature went down, blood pressure leveled out, breathing, not regulated.
It was phenomenal. And then another one was a baby that was less than a month old that healed from meningitis in five stages. First it was the pathogens in the brain, the bacteria, and then there was swelling of the head. And then there was abso gut ab food absorption, sorry, food absorption and increasing gut flora.
Then there was a very high temperature also, and then there was a certain protein in the blood called C-reactive protein. It’s called A CRP counts, and for normal people it’s like below one, it’s like 0.5 to 0.8. With this child, that was 5.0. And so that also came down and all this happened over the space of 10 days.
So each each meditation, cause one, one thing to go down at a time and now the baby is fine. So that, those are just two things that stand out, but just really also I’m able to do an accelerated form of shadow work because that’s my expertise. I’m able to pull one of these shadow beliefs that I mentioned before.
That are really responsible for a lot of pain and suffering that, and that a person’s going through with that. It may not be like top of mind, but like a deep undercurrent of of anxiety and to literally like, turn it down the same way that you would turn down a the dial of a volume, from whatever lever is down to a zero.
It’s a very profound thing. I now understand that the reason that like I wasn’t able to access anything on the retreat when I came here was that if I if I had achieved the healing that I was looking for, then I would’ve stopped looking for a solution to my problem.
And I obviously had to access this new modality.
Sam Believ: That makes a lot of sense. Sometimes. This is how we are guided by universe through, through some form of pain. And then seeking the resolution of the pain. Dorin I, last question. So first of all and when you were here at the retreat the, one of the reasons I wanted to interview you is because I learned a lot from you and I remember we were having a pretty difficult retreat.
Once in a while you have a retreat where there’s certain people that are going through very tumultuous times and they the emotions come up on the surface and they affect other people. And as a facilitator, I always had this desire to smooth those peak and make the experience as positive as possible.
And there was a moment where. It was no longer possible. And you said something that really stuck with me still today, and I still use it in my practice, which is everything that happens at Nyas treat is for a reason. And it not necessarily has to be positive. Sometimes the negative things make this the impulse to, to growth and improvement.
And it really helped me and really made my work easier. And I’m trying to explain it now to people even before the retreat begins, that this is a possibility and we have to accept that negative emotions of another person can be a trigger for something to come out from you and be processed.
And it was really profound. I remember when you were here at the retreat, it was you’re very limited with with the ability of things you can do because of your religion, right? You are a Hasidic Jew. Is that correct? Correct. And so correct. My last question is how do you combine your religion with your spiritual practice as well as plant medicines when you do them occasionally.
And what is your larger outlook on plant medicines and its role or potential role in, in religion?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: Sure. Okay. I can talk a lot about this, but I’ll try to be concise. So first of all, in Pacific Judaism, just like in any other religion, there are going to be people that are pro these experiences and these modalities, and there are gonna be people that are. Violently against them and quoting scripture and saying how forbidden it is.
So it’s no difference within Hasid Judaism. I’m at a place now where I don’t care anymore. I don’t care. Who knows? I don’t care who hears about it. I think personally that I bring a lot of legitimacy to this work because I’m a I’m a sort of, let’s call it high level coach or executive coach, or whatever you wanna call it.
I’m not, like I speak about things that work and I help a lot of people on a very like broad spectrum. I believe I bring a little legitimacy to this type of work. Having said that, there are people that will that will, think the worst of me because of because of the specific area.
But like I said I just, I don’t care anymore. I don’t care anymore. I’ve gotten so much from from Ayahuasca specifically. I’ve got, so I’ve gotten so much that I feel it would be ungrateful of me to not give credit where the credit is due. Now, to answer your question specifically, I can get really deep in this.
But I’ll tell you just for those that doing a little bit of scripture. The whole human game is one of consciousness and specifically within Judaism within, let’s call it ancient Judaism everything was about, consciousness, or some people call it knowledge. So the tree of knowledge, which is not what it’s called.
It’s called the tree of knowledge of good and Evil. So it’s actually a tree of judgment. So that tree of knowledge is called a is tree and of knowledge is that, and that is the word for consciousness as well. It’s within the capitalistic spheres that are within the tree of life. And everything really is about intention and consciousness in its essence.
Okay? We’re told that with the ascension of consciousness or the messianic redemption, that there will be just, that there’ll be an ascension of consciousness. So this all boils down to this now. What the ingredient that is contained within ayahuasca that does all the quote unquote magic is a molecule called dimethyl or shortened into DMT.
And DMT is a native compound that exists. It means it exists in the body. That’s also why there’s no crash from ayahuasca is because your body produces the empty natively. It’s not like when you put something else into your body that, that you get this experience or this this
elevation.
If you take that word pineal and you,
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: It says that, it says in in one of the books of the of Genesis that Jacob fought with an angel and he won and then the an and then he asked the angel to bless him, and then he called the place pineal. So who was his angel that he fought with?
He, it says that it was the ministering angel of his twin brother, Esau. Now, because Jacob and Esau came from the same womb, they are the symbols of yin yang, of good and bad. And so who would as, who would Esau’s ministering Angel be? None. None other than himself. The angel, because second’s an angel that is in charge of all evil.
So when it was time for Jacob to do his own shadow work, he did on a spiritual level, because it says in the scripts that he was left there by himself and then he fought with, and then he fought with someone. So how could he fight with someone if he was left by himself? Because this aspect of self is a deep aspect.
And so he did his, he fought with his demon, so to speak, and then he got named Israel. So Jacob is also called Israel and the children of Israel basically came out of Jacob. It’s got two names, which in itself is a polarity. So if you take the numerical value of the Hebrew word for Jacob, which is yaakov the numerical value, and you add it with the numerical value of Satan, which is Satan, then you get the numerical value of Israel.
Israel, which is like crazy. So the lower part of Jacob of Yaakov and the, and his own integration of shadow self, let’s call that Satan. When you combine this person and this darkness, and it gets integrated to the point that he not just, he didn’t just conquer, he didn’t just beat this angel in a match.
When he beat him, it wasn’t enough that he beat him. He said, now, bless me. And the blessing he got was like he actually called him. Your name will now be Israel. So the numerical value of the person plus the dark side equals the numerical value of the name, that blank where these tribes came out.
And this whole legacy and heritage came out from this name called Israel. So that just, it shows like how important this aspect of the integrating the darkness within integrating this own part within myself, how important it is now. He called the place pine, he called it in Hebrew’s pen, which is face, and then L is God.
So the face of God. And he actually says, because I saw God face to face and I and my soul was saved, which is how a lot of people talk about Ayahuasca ceremony. He then when they got down to Egypt, he then planted acacia trees. Now, for those of you that don’t know Acacia, the in Acacia leaves are one of the highest sources of DMT outside of the Amazon.
And some people say that the Acacia has got even more DMT than the bushes in the Amazon, the Ja and the chili conga. There’s actually more DMT in the Acacia leaves, and it just happens to be that the tabernacle that was built, that the Jews carried in the deserts, that where Moses and Aaron would like actually speak with God.
This was made out of acacia wood. So the woods that made the tabernacle where this, where man would interact with the creator of the world was made out of a wood that contained within it. DMT. There’s all of these different clues that you could look at them as. Coincidence or not? There is a documentary that I’m sure a lot of people have heard of called TMT, the Spirit Molecule, which is itself, is like a, it’s a paradox because a molecule is something physical and spirit is something non-physical. So it’s called the spirit molecule.
And there, there’s this there’s a guy called Joel Bt I think he’s called the psychedelic rabbi. But he speaks about, he brings a whole new, a whole different perspective on the subject, just in general. That’s, it’s a really good documentary with watching.
Sam Believ: Yeah. So I’ll share my own worldview that I’ve formed about religions and psychedelics and I’m glad you mentioned the clues and I didn’t know the judo, the Judaism side of it because I’m not aware of of that, that much.
And it’s fascinating to learn because same as with, the early shamanistic religions of Europe and the a Musca and the whole Santa Claus story and the reindeer. There’s another clue there that also ties to psychedelics. Then the early Christianity being a cult that came out from the cult of ssis, which used a psychedelic sacrament as well.
Originally. I think that if we go deep enough, then there’s definitely some kind of connection and when you drink ayahuasca, sometimes you see entities very similarly resounding, the ones that are described in the Bible with many eyes and angels and archangels. Not the pretty version of them, the one with the wings, but the actual sort of mo monstrous looking presence.
I’ve seen them myself and it just kinda shows you that there’s the root of a lot of religions might have something to do with psychedelics because basically, of course we have a natural ability to get there. But I think that those substances definitely helps. So I think that religions are, in my opinion, and I might offend some people, maybe even you, dorin, I’m sorry, in advance.
I think religions are languages and the God is is and they’re all trying to describe God with the different languages. Like you have a water in a pool and you can say water, you can say AWA, or you can say ADA or ens, and those are the languages I, I speak in and none of them are correct or none of them are necessarily wrong.
They just describe the same thing and you can, and I think psychedelics. They also point to the same direction. And we just need to sorta find a way to, unite them all in, in one given understanding. But then obviously religion has sad connotation, which is the political aspect of it and control aspect of it, which then results in wars and, we’re not gonna go into that topic.
It’s now it’s too far away from ayahuasca, but the, there’s definitely, it’s a fascinating topic to explore. And I’m glad we got to talk a about it a little bit. So we’re we’ve talked for more than an hour now. Do, and by we, I mean you, because I allowed you to do most of the talking, which was really interesting and fascinating.
What are your parting comments or something you wanna tell two people? On the topic of ayahuasca or your work and most importantly, where can people find more about yourself during?
Doron Yitzchak Gibor: Cool. Thanks, Sam. So what I have to say to people is
don’t push it. It’s a very big step and you don’t, the best scenario is that you arrive at a ceremony. While you may be scared for your first time and that’s okay, that you’re sure that you want to be there. That’s, I think that’s the best thing. And I think that’s also the best thing for facilitators is that they don’t want someone that’s I dunno if I should do this.
And then, ’cause it can be challenging and there’s gotta be a lot of resolve I heard someone once say that you don’t drink because you want to, you drink because it’s your time. So that’s number one, is that it’s really important to be sure. I don’t convince anyone to drink medicine, and I don’t convince anyone to do shadow work.
They’re just really big experiences that have, that have the potential to change life so drastically that you’ve really gotta be ready for it. That’s number one. Number two, if you do decide to do it there are three parts, and all parts are equally important. The first part is preparation.
The better you can prepare your body and your your mind, but mainly your body, the better it’ll be for the experience. So that means the preparation diet is absolutely crucial like it is. It’s, there are no words to describe how important it is to prepare your body. So that means refraining from caffeine and whatever the outline there’s a few different schools of thought of, but what’s allowed and what’s not allowed.
But I think everybody agrees on no caffeine, no alcohol no processed foods and things like that. So the preparation is very important. Some people actually go through some sort of like sugar withdrawal in the preparation, and they get to learn things about themselves they didn’t know before.
The second part is the actual experience itself. And what’s really important there is is not just set and setting that’s very important, but a safe place. And that’s really up to the facilitators to provide a safe space. And for all those for all the facilitators listening the safest place is the one with the most rules, which is it may seem contrary, but the more rules there are that get complied with the safer it feels for people because there’s different levels of vulnerability within any group.
The third part, and again, no part is more important than any other part, and that is the integration that the person can go through such a change in consciousness and such a change in paradigm that they begin to change at warp speed, and all of a sudden they find themselves. With not much in common with their friends as they, they had before.
They find themselves wanting to listen to different music, wanting to eat different food, wanting to do different things in their spare time. And some people are not aware that change can happen on that level, and they find themselves wanting, like, why is my life changing so much? Why is my life changing so much?
So it’s really important to, to to have some sort of integration that I think personally is highly underdeveloped and highly under cater for in the medicine world. So those are my, my, my parting words. I would like to, I would like to mention and to offer anyone that wants that.
I have on my website a model, a module of of plant work integration that you can find on my website, breakthrough matrix.com. Just, one word, breakthrough matrix.com, and there’s a lot of free stuff there. Just in general, my, my coaching philosophy in its entirety is essentially good to be an integration model for psychedelic work because it deals with the technicalities and transformation.
And in order for a human being to transform, you can either do it consciously or you can do it psychedelically. The rules still remain the same rules. So there’s a lot of free stuff there because I want to get the things that I’ve learned out into the world. So there’s a lot of free stuff and a lot of there’s just, there’s a lot of free material there.
But like I said, there’s also a a particular module for plant with integration that is free and you can check it out.
Sam Believ: Dorin thank you. Thank you for mentioning the aspect of integration, which is very important as I just did an episode on it as well, which is probably gonna come out together with with this podcast episode. I do believe integration is very important. Guys. Check out doran’s website breakthrough matrix.com.
Correct?
Correct. And Dorin, thank you so much for coming. I think it was a very fascinating episode. There’s a lot of things that we spoke about and a lot of wisdom. I definitely feel my mind being compelled and engaged with all those topics. And there’s a lot to explore. Thank you for coming on the podcast and thank you for sharing the wisdom.
Guys, you’ve been listening to ayahuasca podcast.com. Our guest today was Doran Yack gi. Once again, the host, Sam, the founder of LAAS Retreat. If you wanna learn more about our retreat, go to laira.com and I will see you and hear you in the next episode.